1 PUBLIC WORKSHOP Florida Bay Florida Keys Feasibility Study/ Florida Keys Tidal Restoration SPEAKERS: CORPS: Shelley Trulock Debbie Peterson Mike Dupes SFWMD: DEWEY WORTH CECELIA WEAVER Key Largo Library 101485 Overseas Highway Key Largo, FL Monday, October 28, 2002 7:00 p.m. - 8:40 p.m. MONROE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS (305) 852-7344 2 1 (Powerpoint presentations were made by Shelley 2 Trulock, Debbie Peterson, Mike Dupes, Dewey Worth, and 3 Cecelia Weaver) 4 (Public Comment) 5 CECELIA WEAVER: This is in no particular 6 order. The first one is Jerry Wilkinson. 7 JERRY WILKINSON: How did I do this? I'm 8 last in everything but first here. But I have 9 about a thousand questions. I don't see any 10 bricks and mortar plans. Everything I see is good 11 planning. I see 7 something $8 million of 12 planning. I didn't see bricks or mortar and 13 either the tidal flow restoration. I wouldn't 14 over emphasis the mid 1800's, the first slides on 15 visioning. There were a few visions. One guy 16 Dr. Perrine he got killed in the Indian raid. In 17 the mid 1800's the third Seminole war was still 18 going on. We were not doing too much big, huge 19 agriculture planning, in the mid 1800's. Late 20 1800's, yes. Distant. And the rest of the people 21 did step into the visioning process. 22 My thing is that we are working on a little 23 project I would like to see added as site 5, Dove 24 Lake, mile marker 93. It is so small that we 25 probably can't vision this small. But Dove Lake 3 1 -- we have pictures of Dove Lake being closed off, 2 the tidal flow between Dove Lake which is on the 3 Florida bayside being closed off by Flagler 4 building this horrible railroad through there. We 5 have this kind of in planning purposes. Nobody 6 will listen because it's FDOT which was well 7 mentioned up here. We have a dead lake. Dove 8 Lake basically is a dead lake because we think 9 there is no scouring because of the scouring 10 action that the tidal flow doesn't do. We could 11 put in two, three, four culverts. It's very 12 small. You could do actual measurements and see 13 your results. Because I don't know where the 14 historic salinity measurements came from, because 15 I'm not aware of any, I don't know what historic 16 -- I'm sure the native Americans didn't make any 17 but I don't know how far back went with the 18 historic measurements. Who has been near Dove 19 Lake to see tidal flow back and forth? Restoring 20 it could make an improvement with the cost of 2 or 21 $300,000 probably. 22 A VOICE: Is that in Key Largo? 23 JERRY WILKINSON: That's Key Largo, that's 24 south Key Largo right by the Sun 103, railway 25 station, used to go through, there was a tidal 4 1 exchange at high water flow between the Florida 2 Bay part and it would go out through Dove Creek. 3 It would go from Dove Lake down to Dove Creek. 4 But we have done water sampling with the 5 University of Florida. We have done one year of 6 TPTN and two algae water samplings in Dove Lake. 7 We have some kind of a true real manifested, you 8 know, data flow of what it is. But it is 9 basically the bottom is dead. We could see if the 10 scouring action of tidal flow would make some 11 differences. 12 I didn't see the Tamiami trail. As far as 13 I'm personally concerned we know Flagler did 14 something horrible. I have records where the 15 citizens of public went to Key West to the Corps 16 of Engineers to complain about the title flow and 17 the damming of the -- and the Corps of the 18 Engineers said you don't know what you are talking 19 about public so go back home. And these are 20 public records. 21 We know he did do that. I don't know where 22 we are today with the 1980's opening up with the 23 new highways. Did we open up significant, either 24 tidal flow? Evidently not. Because we know that 25 Marathon was about five Keys. I don't think they 5 1 are going to open up between Knights Key and Hog 2 Key, between Hog Key and Key Vaca, between Fat 3 Deer Key and Key Vaca is opened up. Something 4 tells me we are not going to tear up Marathon to 5 reopen up those tidal flows. 6 But I see we have job security. This is 7 what I'm coming away from this meeting with 8 tonight, job security. It's a huge plan. Thank 9 you. 10 CECELIA WEAVER: The next person I have is 11 Fred Tooker. 12 FRED TOOKER: Is this thing on? 13 CECELIA WEAVER: No. 14 FRED TOOKER: Well you can hear me. I'm Fred 15 Tooker. I live in the Village of Islamorada. I 16 would like to ask a couple of questions before I 17 say what I have to say about Florida Bay. I have 18 been working in Florida Bay. I know Jerry back 19 here was one of the hardest working men I've ever 20 seen. He's done more for the Autoban Society and 21 for the environment down here of anyone I've ever 22 known. He cut his teeth down here. He got his 23 doctorate down here. And I can't wait to hear 24 what he has to say about our birds. 25 However I would like to ask about the 6 1 storage areas that you have up around Lake 2 Okeechobee below the sugarcane fields that you put 3 in there for the storage area. Are those in there 4 now? Have they been put in there? 5 They have not. I understood that they went 6 in there and bulldozed the inner parts which would 7 be the lakes and pushed the dirt up for a berm or 8 a dike. Is that true? 9 DEWEY WORTH: I'm not sure -- how should we 10 proceed in terms of this comment period? Should 11 we attempt to -- 12 CECELIA WEAVER: Well we may not be the 13 appropriate people to answer the question 14 accurately for a Lake Okeechobee project. So I 15 really would like to focus on the tidal 16 restoration and feasibility study. If you have 17 some questions I will be more than happy to go 18 back and tell you the answers for you. 19 FRED TOOKER: I can carry on from there anyway. 20 I'm sure you heard of Dr. Larry Brenns and his 21 hypothesis on the Florida Bay. I was his guide 22 for seven years. Most all of the samples that he 23 worked with I took him out and we got together, 24 gas, water. I worked with, on the satellite 25 imagery program. So I pretty well know Florida 7 1 Bay. What I'm hearing and what I have read in his 2 hypothesis is that when you flood your areas up 3 there and you use that water throughout your 4 project to bring the water down to the Everglades 5 and the rate that you want to bring it down, this 6 water that is in there is completely contaminated 7 with phosphorous. 8 Now you pointed out the two parts of the 9 bay, the eastern bay and the western bay. And the 10 eastern bay is high in nutrients. And the western 11 bay has got your phosphorous in it and the mixing 12 area is roughly in the area of Whipray Basin where 13 the two heads of water come together and there is 14 very little current in those areas and only the 15 tidal movement mixes these waters which is a 16 mixing zone for the phosphorous and the nitrogen 17 to get together which create our algae bloom. We 18 have new algae bloom down there which I just found 19 out about this week. And I'm concerned with the 20 fact if you go in back of the sugarcane property 21 and put those lakes in there for reservoirs so 22 that you have your water when you need it you can 23 call on that lake to do it and you have gone in 24 there and pushed your peak which is when it 25 deteriorates and rots, it gives off a high 8 1 phosphorous, you are going to be dumping the water 2 then in this whole beautiful project full of 3 phosphorous. And nobody's coming up except for 4 the fact they don't accept Dr. Brenn's theory. 5 And basically it's political, I'm talking here for 6 the people out there to hear this, it is political 7 because they dumped some $8 million out there 8 trying to find out about the algae bloom and they 9 did find out. You know what they found out? Be 10 damned if it isn't, there's an algae bloom, after 11 $8 million. Where did it come from? They don't 12 want to know now because they don't want the 13 public to know that they blew $8 million out 14 there. 15 But the facts are that if you dump more 16 phosphorous in Florida Bay you are going to 17 destroy it. The bay will not handle it. I notice 18 up there you have the salinity and you start at 37 19 is normal. I have taken samples out there almost 20 50. Now this was back eight, nine years ago 21 during the drought. And I have seen it come up. 22 We're still getting it out there in the 40's and 23 42 because I still take samples out there. So we 24 still have high salinity. But the seagrass can 25 stand that as long as the water is clear and the 9 1 photosynthesis gets down to the grass it will 2 grow, it can stand that. But if we have another 3 algae bloom like we had back eight or ten years 4 ago, we'll wipe that bay out. The bay is on the 5 mend now. But nobody has done anything but God. 6 Nature has done it. They give us the water we've 7 needed. We've had the ups and downs, we have the 8 rainy seasons. We've had the Everglades go up and 9 down, sometimes two or three times in one season. 10 I think Jerry out there can tell you more about 11 that because he works out there all the time. But 12 we've had everything close to nature in the last 13 eight years to clean up our bay. 14 I've seen places out there when the salinity 15 was so high -- for instance Dumps Keys used to be 16 two of the most beautiful picturesque Keys you've 17 ever seen. And the black mangroves was killed off 18 in this center, they have not come back. But you 19 can go in Big Key Pass coming out of the dragover 20 and you can look and see all of the black mangrove 21 have sprung back up again. But they are on the 22 other side of the phosphorous. They are over on 23 the, the nitrogen and the nutrient side and they 24 have come back. But where the two bays meet 25 together and where the phosphorous and the 10 1 nitrogen gets together there and the algae bloom 2 grow they have not come back. 3 What I'm afraid of and what I feel here now 4 that they should at least bring out his hypothesis 5 and look over it good because they are going to 6 take these lakes that they are going to make and 7 they are going to take the dozers that go in and 8 push that up as a berm or a dike to hold the water 9 and they are pushing up muck and peat. So what 10 are you going to have? You are going to have a 11 lake full of phosphorous. And then when you go 12 and do your -- it's a beautiful job and I detest 13 when I hear somebody say GD engineers. The Corps 14 of Engineers is the finest group of men that ever 15 lived. They are all officers in the United States 16 Corps of Engineers. They did their job because 17 they were ordered to do it. But they were ordered 18 by our politicians. But they still have to do it. 19 They can't talk back. Their commander in 20 chief tells them to do something it's yes, sir. 21 And many of you have been in military out there 22 and you know you don't say no, sir to your 23 sergeant. When he gets that bar on the shoulder, 24 it's yes, sir. And that's what they have done. 25 They have done an excellent job of it and they 11 1 should not be condemned for it and they should not 2 be condemned now for the work they are doing. 3 They are doing work on orders from the big 4 sugar and mostly the big sugar and from there on 5 up through your politicians. I believe that you, 6 somebody within your group has got to look at the 7 fact if they turn this water loose and it's full 8 of phosphorous they are going to ruin the Florida 9 Bay. 10 I was raised -- I'll give you a very quick 11 history of me. I was born in Newark, New Jersey 12 in 1922. I came to Florida in 1923. If it hadn't 13 been for that one year I'd been a red neck but I 14 have been down here all my life. I hunted in the 15 Everglades as a boy and I've hunted in the Florida 16 Bay and I don't think there is any man in this 17 room that can tell me a place in the bay that I 18 haven't been. A lot of the times up on top of the 19 flats but I found my way. And I know the bay and 20 I know what's happened to it and I have seen for 21 myself in this last eight years that our bay is 22 really coming back nicely. 23 But I don't know what's going to happen if 24 we do dump a bunch of phosphorous in and then our 25 little mixing zone which is right in the area of 12 1 the end of what they call Tin Can Channel which is 2 actually Joke Can Channel or Dumps Keys which is 3 Whipray Basin, Mixing Basin I have seen that so 4 green in there that you could take a gallon jug 5 and cut through it but you couldn't see through 6 it. You can go three and a half miles south in 7 Whipray Basin and fill up a jug and you could see 8 through it and that's in around Derelict Key. And 9 we will have that same thing back and it will kill 10 off. In those same areas when it was that dark I 11 still seen fish. It does not kill a fish. I seen 12 mullet in there and dolphin in there chasing them 13 all over the place when it was like that. But it 14 does kill the seagrass. And of course the sponges 15 have been wiped out completely and what they don't 16 wipe out they pick them up with hooks. But we do 17 need to have somebody to look into it. And I 18 thank you all very much. 19 CECELIA WEAVER: Dr. Jerry Lorenz. 20 DR. JERRY LORENZ: I just have a couple of 21 questions or comments, a couple of questions. 22 Dewey on one of your slides you showed that input 23 of fresh water into Florida Bay through both, they 24 separate out what comes through Shark River Slough 25 and what comes through C-111 in the Panhandle. I 13 1 just want to ask, I don't know if you can do this 2 or not but I would like to see it split up between 3 the Panhandle, what comes through C-111 and what 4 goes into Taylor Slough. Those flows are not 5 created equal. Just because you have the same 6 quantities doesn't mean the distribution is 7 correct. We really need to make sure that the 8 water is going into Taylor Slough to provide 9 benefits to the Estuary. What comes through C-111 10 depends on what time of year it comes through 11 provides limited influence and it comes through 12 during the dry season can actually cause a great 13 deal of harm. So I would like to see if you could 14 split that information out if at all possible. 15 The question that I have that I hope you can 16 answer tonight is in the tidal restoration study. 17 The PIR resources that you presented calls for a 18 project monitoring plan and then in parenthesis it 19 says baseline. Does that mean that you are only 20 going to monitor for the first two years then 21 implement this plan and not do any monitoring 22 after? What does it mean? 23 DEWEY WORTH: It's means that we have 24 funding as part of the PIR process to do the 25 baseline monitoring. Once we come up with the 14 1 recommended plan and go seek additional funding to 2 construct we'll also get additional money to do 3 the post construction monitoring that goes along 4 with that. 5 DR. JERRY LORENZ: Very good. So there is 6 money in this process to monitor the effect? 7 DEWEY WORTH: (Affirmative Nod). 8 DR. JERRY LORENZ: Lastly following up on 9 what Jerry Wilkinson said he has an obvious like 10 for Dove Creek and I happen to have my own pet 11 peeve and that's Manatee Creek at county line. 12 Those two culverts that are in there that used to 13 be a huge flowway between Biscayne Bay and Long 14 Sound and Florida Bay. That whole area has been 15 cut off by the road and those culverts there do 16 not provide enough transitiveness for the tides to 17 actually move back and forth. I don't know if 18 there is any place that you can add another OPE or 19 not but I would certainly recommend that area for 20 tidal restoration. Thank you. 21 CECELIA WEAVER: Miss Mabel Miller. 22 MABEL MILLER: Mabel Miller, 210 Seaview 23 Drive, Key Biscayne and 152 Orchid Street, 24 Islamorada. I live in both of those places. I do 25 science research and education at Biscayne Bay and 15 1 I'm extremely interested in Florida Bay and its 2 problem. When you think of a physician he always 3 wants to know what good health of an individual 4 is. And I'd like to ask if you have found any 5 index habitats in the bay that are highly 6 representative of what you would expect to have 7 them or elsewhere along the Atlantic or in 8 Biscayne Bay, seagrasses, a healthy seagrass 9 community, mangroves and other areas. I'd also 10 like to know why you have chosen in particular 11 those four sites rather than any other place. And 12 maybe you can clarify that for us. 13 CECELIA WEAVER: Mike, can you address the 14 environmental question? 15 DEWEY WORTH: I guess what you were trying 16 to point out is whether or not we have some 17 indicated regions in Florida Bay that would give 18 us some clue as to what we expect to see as a 19 healthy system once it was restored, is that -- 20 MABEL MILLER: Yes. 21 DEWEY WORTH: I guess there is no simple 22 answer for that one because depending on where you 23 go in the Bay I guess you get different answers 24 about whether or not its current status is 25 considered to be healthy or not. But as we go 16 1 forward in development of the feasibility study 2 and we develop specific target measures for 3 different portions of the Bay, we will attempt to 4 identify what we would expect to see as a healthy 5 system for each of those regions of the Bay and we 6 are pulling together the best science that we have 7 available among all of the different agencies and 8 National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, 9 Everglades National Park, the Keys National Marine 10 Sanctuary, wherever we can draw upon different 11 expertise to help define those regions of where 12 the targets for health should be, that's what we 13 are going to utilize and that's what we'll attempt 14 to evaluate as part of the feasibility study, set 15 those targets and then attempt to evaluate with 16 the various amounts of fresh water flow into the 17 Bay, how close are we getting to those restoration 18 targets as we add more fresh water. That's one 19 means of going about it and identifying what are 20 those healthy conditions for the Bay. 21 As to your four sites that you were 22 questioning why those four sites were selected, at 23 this point in time those were the four sites that 24 were identified in the yellow book as part of the 25 overall CERP restoration plan. Of those 63 17 1 projects that were identified, it only selected 2 four sites in the Marathon area based on a 3 previous study that was done, I think back in 1998 4 by DOT, that identified some particular areas 5 around Marathon that would benefit through 6 additional tidal restoration. 7 And so that is what was picked up in the 8 yellow book as the first restoration for doing 9 some tidal restoration in the area. 10 MABEL MILLER: And you're well aware of the 11 habitats on both sides, the bayside and the 12 Atlanta side, you're well informed about those? 13 DEWEY WORTH: As part of that tidal 14 restoration effort and the monitoring that would 15 go along with that, we would fully evaluate both 16 on the Bay and the Atlantic side what those 17 exiting environmental conditions are and how we 18 would expect the project to influence those 19 environmental conditions. 20 CECELIA WEAVER: James McDowell. 21 JAMES McDOWELL: The last one, the last 22 person you want to hear from tonight. Okay. I 23 don't know how many people, how many of you people 24 have gone to the South Florida -- South Florida 25 Water Managers were here in 1988 when they opened 18 1 up C-111 and destroyed the bays. It was a media 2 event then. It was channel 10 channel 7 come down 3 and showed all the sponges floating in the Bay and 4 everything. 5 Well I'm a commercial fisherman. I trap 6 those bays and I still try to trap those bays 7 today. My first thing I would like to see you do 8 is take C-111 and shut it down, shut it down. I 9 think all of us if we take a cement block as we 10 went out of the Keys and throw it over the bridge 11 you would do a better job than what this whole 12 meeting is going to do tonight. The chemical suit 13 that's come down through here over the years -- 14 well in 1988 -- in 1987 there is 70 traps out 15 there, we'd catch 100 pounds a time. 1988 300 16 traps, I got eight pounds out of there. This year 17 I'm fishing Blackwater Sound and I'm fishing 18 Barnes Sound. My first pull was October 15th. I 19 got nothing out of Barnes Sound, nothing. There 20 is nothing alive up there. 21 Jim, that crocodile refuge that is just 22 north of there what are the crocodiles eating -- I 23 know they don't eat stone crabs but there still 24 has to be something in that Bay that those 25 crocodiles are going to live on. Blackwater 19 1 Sound, the same thing. I have two pulls in those 2 bays and I have yet to catch the first crab. And 3 last year at the end of season -- let's see when 4 was it? It was in March and April. Just as a 5 test I took some of my traps, before I brought 6 them in and put them on shore for the year, I put 7 them in Blackwater Sound and took some up to 8 Barnes Sound. I was getting a quarter of a pound 9 of crabs per trap. Now that doesn't sound like a 10 lot but when you bring that down to $10 a pound, a 11 quarter of a pound per trap that's two and a half 12 bucks. That's worth going out there and pulling 13 them. That's why I put more traps out there this 14 year. So from May of last year until today, South 15 Florida Water Managers opened up that levee and 16 let some crabs in there and killed those bays 17 again. You know I'm not pointing fingers but what 18 I'd like to see is I'd like to see C-111 closed 19 entirely. 20 When you had your comment up here you showed 21 Barnes Sound had a high nutrient level. Well 22 could that high nutrient level be expanded to Key 23 Largo and it could be part of the wastewater 24 problem that they are trying to replum this whole 25 area and put sewage in. Maybe it's not Key Largo 20 1 that's causing the sewage. Maybe it might be the 2 C-111 canal. So if we would start there, close 3 C-111 then let's look as this sewage problem that 4 we have down here two years from now and see if we 5 still have the same amount of sewage problem now 6 as we had then. 7 The reef out here. We just had an article 8 in the paper the other day about the reef still 9 dying. Maybe that still some of that chemical 10 soot that's coming through Broad Creek or coming 11 through Adams Cut, because I know even in Largo 12 Sound, there's nothing alive over there. Those 13 guys trapping over there they are not catching 14 anything, no blue crabs no stone crabs. This year 15 there is not even any little snails on the traps 16 or any periwinkles or any little scallops. Years 17 past there was always that stuff that would attach 18 itself to the side of the trap. I'm not finding 19 anything out there alive. There's a reason. 20 So I hope you guys with your infinite wisdom 21 take some cement blocks and throw it in that C-111 22 levee. That's all I have to say. Thanks. 23 CECELIA WEAVER: Unless there is anyone else 24 who would like to make a comment -- 25 KATHI FORTMANN: My name is Kathi Fortmann. 21 1 I live in Marathon. 2 CECELIA WEAVER: Excuse me. Could we ask you 3 to come up here and speak to us. 4 KATHI FORTMANN: Sure. My name is Kathi 5 Fortmann. I live in Marathon. I came up here 6 tonight for the meeting because we can't make the 7 one tomorrow night. My husband and I just sold 8 our marina in Marathon. I'm really familiar with 9 the flows between the Bay and the ocean that 10 you're talking about with the four sites in 11 Marathon I would just like to volunteer to help if 12 I can. 13 CECELIA WEAVER: Did you fill out one of the 14 yellow forms? 15 KATHI FORTMANN: Yes, I did. 16 CECELIA WEAVER: Would you mind turning that 17 in. If you would go back there and talk to Amanta 18 we could find that and make a note. Thank you so 19 much. 20 KATHI FORTMANN: The first site which if you 21 opened that it would just flow into the water 22 behind Key Colony Beach which wouldn't accomplish 23 anything. So the two through four would be better 24 things to think about. 25 CECELIA WEAVER: Okay we appreciate that. 22 1 Thank you. Someone else raised their hand. 2 DAVID WHITE: I'm David White of the Ocean 3 Conservancy. I had a couple of questions. Where 4 are the agencies in developing an environmental 5 baseline for restoration of the Florida Bay, what 6 are they restoring it to? 7 DEWEY WORTH: Well that's part of the effort 8 and the feasibility study to establish what those 9 targets are, what are we shooting for in terms of 10 restoration. 11 DAVID WHITE: I understand. Where are you in 12 that? 13 DEWEY WORTH: We haven't even started . 14 DAVID WHITE: For example in the National 15 Academy of Sciences Study that was released a 16 couple of months ago there was some historic 17 information that Florida Bay was not clear and in 18 the last, in the 60's and 70's it became clear. 19 So is there even any consensus on whether -- on 20 the future of the Florida Bay, is it clear? 21 DEWEY WORTH: I wouldn't say there is 22 consensus yet because we are still compiling all 23 of the available scientific information and we are 24 looking at the historical data as well as more 25 recent information that's been collected. And 23 1 once that's been amassed then I think we are going 2 to start working on what is this perception of the 3 future of Florida Bay. 4 I think right now everyone accepts the fact 5 that more fresh water may cause more turbid 6 conditions in Florida Bay and that may have been 7 historically what the Bay was more like than it 8 has been in the last 20 years with reduction of 9 fresh water flows. But there is still yet to be a 10 consensus built around that. 11 DAVID WHITE: To what extent will public 12 perception play in the future of Florida Bay? If 13 the public wants it cloudy are you going to make 14 it cloudy? If the public want it clear are you 15 going to make it clear? That's a scary thought. 16 Is that the case? 17 DEWEY WORTH: Hopefully the project will 18 make a recommendation based on the sound science 19 that's available that describes what the benefits 20 of the restored condition would be and that there 21 will be wide-spread support for that restored 22 condition. What that may be, along the spectrum 23 of gin clear water to slightly turbid waters we 24 don't know yet. And that is a public process. It 25 includes both the science that we collect as well 24 1 as what the public is willing to support in terms 2 of the restoration effort and fund that 3 restoration effort. 4 DAVID WHITE: Regarding the alternatives for 5 the tidal restoration project, there are four 6 sites that were selected through some process back 7 in the mid to late 90's and I've heard that, for 8 example the Environmental Protection Agency has 9 recommended is some additional sites, some people 10 here tonight recommended some additional sites. 11 At what point will these other sites be considered 12 and evaluated and will they be evaluated at the 13 same level as the four that have already been 14 preselected? What's the process for determining 15 which ones go forward of those four plus the ones 16 that you're taking input on? 17 CECELIA WEAVER: For the tide restoration 18 project we are limited to the four sites 19 identified in this CERP plan. However we can take 20 these additional sites, add them to the list and 21 those can be evaluated in the feasibility study. 22 DAVID WHITE: The question is will they be 23 evaluated? 24 CECELIA WEAVER: Yes they will. I don't see 25 a problem with that at all. 25 1 DAVID WHITE: To the same level as the four 2 you've got there? 3 CECELIA WEAVER: It's two different studies. 4 So it may be a different process but they should 5 be evaluated equally against the other listed 6 sites that Fish & Wildlife has helped us develop. 7 DAVID WHITE: Now is there any funding to 8 look at those sites. 9 CECELIA WEAVER: It's part of the feasibility 10 process. 11 DAVID WHITE: Part of the feasibility 12 process. And there's money in there to look at 13 additional sites? 14 CECELIA WEAVER: They did not tell us to look 15 at 20 sites or 32 sites. So that is open as far 16 as identification of possible restoration areas. 17 That should not be a problem. 18 DAVID WHITE: But those four are going 19 forward regardless. 20 CECELIA WEAVER: The four that are part of 21 the tidal restoration, the ones that we are 22 evaluating, yes. 23 DAVID WHITE: I would just like to urge 24 everyone to stay involved in this process. We are 25 going to spend $8 billion. Remember, that's Corps 26 1 dollars not normal dollars. It is probably going 2 to be a lot more than that. So I would urge 3 everyone to stay on top of what's going on 4 upstream of the system because otherwise we are 5 going to end up with a $8 billion project that is 6 going to push a lot of dirty water around. We 7 need to be really careful about the quality of the 8 water that comes into Florida Bay because the 9 economic livelihood and the quality of life in the 10 Florida Keys depends on everything that happens 11 upstream. And we all need to be diligent to make 12 sure that we don't end up with a project that 13 moves a lot of the dirty water around. 14 MABEL MILLER: One more thing. I wonder if 15 you have used or will you or can you use research 16 that has been done by universities from all over 17 the United States in this area? Will that be 18 utilized by you? 19 DEWEY WORTH: Any and all information that 20 we can get our hands on we'll take. 21 MABEL MILLER: You'll make up a bibliography 22 of the research papers? 23 DEWEY WORTH: There will be an extensive 24 report that will be developed. 25 CECELIA WEAVER: Danielle. We need to draw 27 1 this to a close in a few minutes but we have 2 another comment. 3 DEBORAH SHAW: Yeah, I'm Deborah Shaw. I 4 just want to make and quick comment. I'm Deborah 5 Shaw. I'm a biologist. I work for the Florida 6 Keys Electric Co-op. My comment tonight is 7 prompted for me personally and as being a 8 biologist. I've worked with these folks a bit on 9 this project only because they are working closely 10 with many of us here in the Keys because of our 11 different affiliations. And I was actually pretty 12 impressed -- I came cynically and skeptically as 13 some of the comments from this audience are a 14 little cynical and some certainly skeptical. 15 My impression of work that had been done, 16 this goes back to a month or so ago when I met 17 with the folks down in Marathon and viewed those 18 sites, I was impressed at the depth of the work, 19 the breadth of the work, and the expertise that 20 has been brought into the process. And I didn't 21 expect to get up here and say anything but I'm 22 concerned that you all seem real uneasy - and 23 that's healthy and it's good. But I'm probably 24 the most skeptical person around as far as 25 trusting the Corps or any other big government 28 1 agency, but I have been impressed with the folks. 2 And I want to make one other quick comment. 3 We talked about the gin clear waters of the Keys 4 or the murky pea soup waters of Florida Bay. A 5 lot of the before and after measurements, and this 6 goes to your concern, will be made in generic 7 terms. And I'm speaking from my own scientific 8 background, I don't know that this is what you're 9 going to do but I'm assuming that you all are 10 scientists, are going to do some before studies 11 not on historical conditions necessarily because 12 we've all agreed that we don't really know what 13 point in history we would pick, but based on 14 current species abundance, diversity, species 15 richness, whatever you ecological professor, 16 ecology professor taught to you call it, abundance 17 of individuals of those species and then later 18 when the restoration is done you have got to 19 monitor and you hope for perhaps an increased 20 diversity if in fact there was a possibility of 21 species before. So we are going to look for those 22 scientific parameters and those are all real 23 measures that we all can make. So that's all, all 24 I'm saying. 25 JERRY WILKINSON: Jerry Wilkinson again. I'd 29 1 like to make one more comment about Manatee Creek. 2 Henry Flagler hauled 5 million gallons of muck 3 potable water out of Manatee Creek to supply to 4 personnel building the railroad. There are stacks 5 and stacks in the Flagler Museum of complaints 6 filed about every conceivable thing that human 7 beings can complain about building a railroad. 8 There is not one written complaint about the 9 potable water supplied from Manatee Creek. I find 10 that totally amazing. We have more complaints of 11 the FKAA Aqueduct line, you know, than we did out 12 of Flagler's water. So if water quality in 13 Manatee Creek must have been some kind of good 14 water because people that were shanghaied from the 15 north to come down and work in mosquitoes and 16 sunshine never filed, that we have record of, a 17 written complaint about the quality of their 18 drinking and bathing water. Thank you. 19 CECELIA WEAVER: Okay folks. Thank you all 20 for coming out this evening and sharing your 21 concerns and that will conclude the public 22 workshop. 23 (Public workshop concluded at 8:40 p.m.) 24 25 30 CERTIFICATE I, KATHLEEN A. FEGERS, Registered Professional Reporter, do hereby certify that I was authorized to and did stenographically report the foregoing proceedings and that the transcript is a true record. Dated this 6th day of November, 2002. _____________________________ KATHLEEN A. FEGERS, RPR Court Reporter MONROE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS (305) 852-7344